Thank you for your reporting, Sean. There are so many great quotes in here. It's a revealing story about the costs of the growing intolerance, conformity and bad faith that's captured so many institutions in NY Media.
This is only a predicament in workplaces with weak leadership that nurtures the idea that good journalism can be measured by how few staff members are aggrieved by any given piece of copy. It sounds like Pesca was always willing to hear people out and even re-recorded a podcast segment though nothing was journalistically or ethically wrong with his first draft. It sounds like he had unprofessional podcast producers who, even after convincing Pesca to make a change, still felt the need to gossip about Pesca's initial inclusion of a non-abbreviated racial slur as though Pesca included it originally out of thoughtless insensitivity rather than a thoughtful and deliberate journalistic choice. Very few white people, especially in a work environment, want to write or say a racial slur. It's not some secretly fun thing to do. If someone can't grasp the moral chasm between voluntary inclusion of an racial slur unnecessary to the copy and including for for clarity of the copy then they should seek a different profession outside of journalism. Reading Pesca's actions as either racist or intentionally hurtful is bad faith narcissistic performative grievance. A way to show coworkers how much you care about rooting out racism.
Yet Slate kicked out a truly thought provoking and successful talent for the sake of people who are ensuring Slate's downfall as it becomes just one more irrelevant media silo to be ignored by people who don't just want content that tells them exactly what they want to hear.
Really tremendous piece here, certainly the best thing I’ve read about Mike’s ordeal. I was especially glad to hear from David Plotz on this, given his past and current positions, so yeah, job very well-done, Mr. Cooper. This whole saga represents the tumult in media so nicely that it seems like a bit of an allegory—maybe call it Pesca’s Progress, something like that? I dunno, I’m just thinking out loud here.
It’s hard for me to imagine I’d have handled an eleven-month leave from work that included a *seven-month investigation and legal negotiation* with the grace and sensitivity and general unwillingness to speak harshly in public about any of the other involved parties that Pesca has shown in all this, including now that it’s all done. But hey, I’m a civilian in this conflict—albeit not a neutral one by any means.
Put it this way: the Defector piece ended, if I recall correctly, with an anonymous quote that was just a straightforward ad hominem attack on Pesca’s character—utter malpractice, at least as I was taught journalism working at a local weekly paper. I bet he knows who that person is, but I’d also bet he won’t be responding in kind; frankly, if he did, I’d be disappointed and embarrassed for him. That’s a real mismatch, and I presume (or at least hope!) I’m not the only one who sees it.
Loved this piece, after listening to and reading the other coverage of the subject this is the most enlightening. Really appreciated hearing from David Plotz, he was the person I was hoping to hear from. Looking forward to years more of The Gist!
It's surprising that so many intelligent people are walking themselves off the plank of social media and encouraging when voices of sanity and reason survive. Thanks
This is the first report I have read of what happened that sounds like it might be reporting what actually happened. I believe this, in part, because it describes my own thoughts about my diminishing enjoyment of reading Slate and Vox. I still like both, but I am no longer as eager to read them.
I like Pesca’s work and I’m loathe to agree with censors on any side, I can’t see a legitimate purpose really ever to use that language. I’m shocked that it seems like I hear the word a whole lot more out of while male liberal coastal journalists than I do from my elderly redneck red state relatives.
So you would simply erase Nigger Jim from Huckleberry Finn? You would memory hole Yoko Ono's "Woman is the Nigger of the World"? You would redact readings of works by Malcom X? You would delete Redd Foxx? Blazing Saddles? Richard Pryor? Whitewash American culture just to preserve your little white safe space? No Niggers Allowed?
if I give you a Like on this one, carbon person, I'll end up on a gray list. I'm on too many already. Well, I guess I'm off to read my novel by Harriet E. Wilson, who has been banned by the white ladies of a certain age in the universities.
What is funny is that I can use "that word" with my Black friends (I am a "White" southern born man) but not around any of White Oregonian neighbors, in any context. But then my Black friends (who I made in D.C.) would likely not be my friends if they did NOT think it bizarre if I used the phrase "the N word". As a team leader in the Pentagon of 4 black women, 1 black man, (and 1 Hispanic man) and a boss who was a big black Army Lt Colonel who had the appearance and presence of the giant in Pulp Fiction in the 2010s, I NEVER censored myself .. and had a lot of fun joking around - which of course does involve poking at visible traits and stereotypes, and being Southern, also self-deprecatory - so as urban as I really am, OF COURSE folks would work in a hillbilly joke whenever the opportunity arose naturally. Now me being me, I am sure I never used "the N word" in an offensive context, but if I wanted to offend, I would not have to use a particular word. (And of course the term "the N word" did not exist at that time - "darkies" would be my joke term anyway, if I did make an ironically racist joke, since it was an offensive term that black folks are actually NOT used to hearing at home).
I cannot imagine what it must be like to be in the Pentagon today, in a time where context does not matter. I feel it's like a world where the penalty is the same for driving 50 in a 40 zone as it is for driving 50 in a 40 zone and deliberately running someone over.
I can’t imagine what it’s like to tie your identity (whatever that means) to your right to use an offensive racial slur in regular conversation. You owe your family, your country and yourself to reach a higher standard.
What racial slur would that be? Pretty sure I have never used a racial slur. If I wanted to get the goat of one of my black buddies I would not use the word "nigger", as that is too broad, and among my buddies it is used like "hello", so it would more likely cause confusion. So I would not use Nigger as a slur, any more than I would attempt to hurt the feelings of a Georgian man with the word "cracker". I would be far more likely to call attention to that growth on his neck. As you said, I hold myself to a higher standard.
Just curious, have you every actually MET any black folks - the FIRST reaction you would get from one if you said "the N Word" around a real person is "hey man, I'm not a dog, I still know what you are saying". Trust me, pretending they can't spell is a far surer way to get a punch in the face than simply saying the word. As I already wrote, if you are the only white guy working with a team of black folks, it is simply not sustainable (and you WILL get laughed at) by trying to maintain a separate coded language. In the real world, if your co-workers and team likes you, you can get away with anything, if they don't, if you are TRULY a bad boss, you will get reported to H.R. just for making them "uncomfortable" by AVOIDING certain words around them - if that's the only way they can rid their world of you. THIS is from an experience I witnessed and will not share here - the fallout was that these supposed sensitive malcontents all ended up on my team .. and these gals turned out to be the raunchiest, thick skinned soldiers I ever worked with. They played the system (to good end - I couldn't stand the prick either) and that was back in 2010. But this is still an dishonest weapon in the arsenal (since no one's feelings were ACTUALLY hurt) even if used in good cause.
Do you need some Tiger Balm for that reach? I’m talking about using it in everyday speech. If you use it regularly, you are likely poor white trash and you deserve whatever opprobrium you get.
every day speech? In any language? Negro is the word for Black in Spanish. Alabama raised Hispanics have as hard a time as saying tomatO instead of TomatER as do their white and black classmates. If a Connecticut Yankee pronounces NigGER, then it is very likely a racial slur, as he or she has to make an effort to do so. A Southerner of any race has to make an effort to NOT (which is why Southerners who try to say "NegrO" sound strange, so quickly switched to 'colored' or 'black' when Negro fell out of fashion.). You may or may not be a racist yourself, but you do come across as a bit culturally insensitive. But now you know, so ignorance is no longer an excuse. Where DO you live - or raised? That does make a difference.
I am not including Montgomery Alabama (or "Gone With the Wind" accented Atlantans) in the above, as they oddly say "the Govanah" instead of "the Governer". But that is where the supposedly more acceptable "Niggah" arose, that is simply how the locals honestly pronounce "Nigger". That has to do with immigration patterns. Native Texans of Austin Texas region speak like they are from Alabama due to a group of Tuscaloosa Alabama churches and their congregations up and moving en masse to central Texas to avoid the Civil War.
And so I don't sound totally stubborn, my concern is NOT really with how we speak today .. I can adapt like any human .. my concern is that HISTORY will be misinterpreted or worse, erased, by applying new standards retroactively .. so that now the writings of the uber-progressives Norman Lear and Mark Twain (and episodes of Sesame Street) are considered too hard to translate into a changed language .. I find it more elegant to just NOT change the language (especially when it is from something poetic to something hyphenated and bureaucratic .. the same reason I am against changing dropping miles for kilometres .. I understand the reasons, but it is not worth the loss of the ability to compose the luscious "I'm Five Hundred Miles Away from Home" - or even "I'd Walk a Mile for a Camel".
Note, I am being gracious and not addressing the "poor white trash and you deserve whatever opprobrium you get." line. Substitute "dumb black niggers" for "poor white trash" and you will know EXACTLY how that comes across to those outside whatever suburb or bubble you live in .. yet I have no compulsion to hit the Report Comment button. I am not going to erase you who are with a click of a button. Nor would I want to do so. I don't assume people are evil, I assume they are ignorant. As we all are. You don't know what you don't know.
whoah, I typed a comment and then, for the first time, noticed that my name was White Sneed. I see that my true colours are showing. So I guess that substack thing I may or may not have started is rolling. Weirdly, White Sneed arose for such an hour. It might be time for him to man up. I think I hadn't quite understood how late it was.
This is like fucken Moody Bible Institute, Chicago, 1979. Mike Flood would sit up in front during chapel five days a week and brood on ways to be offended. He'd pull out about three times a week, and his half-dozen disciples would pull out with him. At Bible college very few would own up to being offended on their own account. It was always on behalf of the weaker brethren. Everyone spoke of these weaker brethren, but no one ever found them.
True fact: my son literally disowned me yesterday, 4 January '23 in this regrettably Christian calendar, changing his last name to his mother's (actually his mother's father's) because he said I made one joke too many about...well, does it matter? His mother is Dean of Woke at the University of Toronto. She used to laugh at all this p.c. stuff.
As for all this laughable stuff George Carlin warned us about, what an offensive way to treat black people, to assume that they're the weaker brethren. Jesus Christ.
Oh, you are in Canada, that explains a lot. The whiter the area, the more this phobia exists .. I guess it makes sense in two ways .. one is that it is easier to infantilize and fetish those you do not really know .. and two, it is simply exhausting to be around (and in my case, usually outnumbered by) people while not being yourself, or not speaking in their vernacular. It is MORE awkward to be the only one in a group of buddies NOT singing along to the offensive word in the song while riding in the car .. but if one does not HAVE black buddies, then I suppose one does not know that. Just don't tell those of us who do, how to behave. Jeez. (Okay, full disclosure, I don't sing along to rap songs, not even to Blondie, so actually I'm the one in the car not singing at all. Fuller disclosure, I don't sing along to any songs. Okay Fullest disclosure, I can't sing.).
I DID have a bit of fun a year back on the phone with a friend now in Atlanta when I dryly kept referring to him as "the N Word". But that joke (along with that awkward artificial and pretentious virtue-signaling term I mean REALLY? Spell it so our dog and the black folks won't know what we are saying) is SO last year. Time to move on, and again call a Spade a Spade.
I have to wonder whether and how much Will Saletan's sympathetic quotes here had to do with his departure/defenestration (?) from Slate this past Friday, January 28.
Wow, what a huge mark against Slate or the New York Times when white journalists can not use the n-word without consequence. The media is really going downhill when white journalists cant use the n-word without consequence. All the nuance and subtlety is lost in reporting when white journalists can’t use the n-word without consequence. We are at the precipice of losing a functional media when white journalists can not use the n-word without consequence.
This is my honest reading of how the people who feel that what happened to Pesca was this grave issue for journalism. I just wish the people who feel that way would just honestly state their position. That for them something is lost in journalism when white journalists can’t use the n-word without consequence.
Fantastic analysis of traditional media’s predicament. The best I’ve read.
the worst part is imagining how incredibly unfunny all the jokes on that Slack must have been
a surprising lack of jokes--mainly statements on a spectrum between serious and strident.
Thank you for your reporting, Sean. There are so many great quotes in here. It's a revealing story about the costs of the growing intolerance, conformity and bad faith that's captured so many institutions in NY Media.
This is only a predicament in workplaces with weak leadership that nurtures the idea that good journalism can be measured by how few staff members are aggrieved by any given piece of copy. It sounds like Pesca was always willing to hear people out and even re-recorded a podcast segment though nothing was journalistically or ethically wrong with his first draft. It sounds like he had unprofessional podcast producers who, even after convincing Pesca to make a change, still felt the need to gossip about Pesca's initial inclusion of a non-abbreviated racial slur as though Pesca included it originally out of thoughtless insensitivity rather than a thoughtful and deliberate journalistic choice. Very few white people, especially in a work environment, want to write or say a racial slur. It's not some secretly fun thing to do. If someone can't grasp the moral chasm between voluntary inclusion of an racial slur unnecessary to the copy and including for for clarity of the copy then they should seek a different profession outside of journalism. Reading Pesca's actions as either racist or intentionally hurtful is bad faith narcissistic performative grievance. A way to show coworkers how much you care about rooting out racism.
Yet Slate kicked out a truly thought provoking and successful talent for the sake of people who are ensuring Slate's downfall as it becomes just one more irrelevant media silo to be ignored by people who don't just want content that tells them exactly what they want to hear.
Really tremendous piece here, certainly the best thing I’ve read about Mike’s ordeal. I was especially glad to hear from David Plotz on this, given his past and current positions, so yeah, job very well-done, Mr. Cooper. This whole saga represents the tumult in media so nicely that it seems like a bit of an allegory—maybe call it Pesca’s Progress, something like that? I dunno, I’m just thinking out loud here.
It’s hard for me to imagine I’d have handled an eleven-month leave from work that included a *seven-month investigation and legal negotiation* with the grace and sensitivity and general unwillingness to speak harshly in public about any of the other involved parties that Pesca has shown in all this, including now that it’s all done. But hey, I’m a civilian in this conflict—albeit not a neutral one by any means.
Put it this way: the Defector piece ended, if I recall correctly, with an anonymous quote that was just a straightforward ad hominem attack on Pesca’s character—utter malpractice, at least as I was taught journalism working at a local weekly paper. I bet he knows who that person is, but I’d also bet he won’t be responding in kind; frankly, if he did, I’d be disappointed and embarrassed for him. That’s a real mismatch, and I presume (or at least hope!) I’m not the only one who sees it.
Has Defector ever sought to uphold any kind of journalistic standards?
Yikes! Wars have been fought over the true meaning of the trinity. Mike Pesca; washed, but not washed clean, by the pristine wokeness of Slate.com.
Loved this piece, after listening to and reading the other coverage of the subject this is the most enlightening. Really appreciated hearing from David Plotz, he was the person I was hoping to hear from. Looking forward to years more of The Gist!
It's surprising that so many intelligent people are walking themselves off the plank of social media and encouraging when voices of sanity and reason survive. Thanks
This is the first report I have read of what happened that sounds like it might be reporting what actually happened. I believe this, in part, because it describes my own thoughts about my diminishing enjoyment of reading Slate and Vox. I still like both, but I am no longer as eager to read them.
I like Pesca’s work and I’m loathe to agree with censors on any side, I can’t see a legitimate purpose really ever to use that language. I’m shocked that it seems like I hear the word a whole lot more out of while male liberal coastal journalists than I do from my elderly redneck red state relatives.
So you would simply erase Nigger Jim from Huckleberry Finn? You would memory hole Yoko Ono's "Woman is the Nigger of the World"? You would redact readings of works by Malcom X? You would delete Redd Foxx? Blazing Saddles? Richard Pryor? Whitewash American culture just to preserve your little white safe space? No Niggers Allowed?
Wow.
if I give you a Like on this one, carbon person, I'll end up on a gray list. I'm on too many already. Well, I guess I'm off to read my novel by Harriet E. Wilson, who has been banned by the white ladies of a certain age in the universities.
What is funny is that I can use "that word" with my Black friends (I am a "White" southern born man) but not around any of White Oregonian neighbors, in any context. But then my Black friends (who I made in D.C.) would likely not be my friends if they did NOT think it bizarre if I used the phrase "the N word". As a team leader in the Pentagon of 4 black women, 1 black man, (and 1 Hispanic man) and a boss who was a big black Army Lt Colonel who had the appearance and presence of the giant in Pulp Fiction in the 2010s, I NEVER censored myself .. and had a lot of fun joking around - which of course does involve poking at visible traits and stereotypes, and being Southern, also self-deprecatory - so as urban as I really am, OF COURSE folks would work in a hillbilly joke whenever the opportunity arose naturally. Now me being me, I am sure I never used "the N word" in an offensive context, but if I wanted to offend, I would not have to use a particular word. (And of course the term "the N word" did not exist at that time - "darkies" would be my joke term anyway, if I did make an ironically racist joke, since it was an offensive term that black folks are actually NOT used to hearing at home).
I cannot imagine what it must be like to be in the Pentagon today, in a time where context does not matter. I feel it's like a world where the penalty is the same for driving 50 in a 40 zone as it is for driving 50 in a 40 zone and deliberately running someone over.
I can’t imagine what it’s like to tie your identity (whatever that means) to your right to use an offensive racial slur in regular conversation. You owe your family, your country and yourself to reach a higher standard.
What racial slur would that be? Pretty sure I have never used a racial slur. If I wanted to get the goat of one of my black buddies I would not use the word "nigger", as that is too broad, and among my buddies it is used like "hello", so it would more likely cause confusion. So I would not use Nigger as a slur, any more than I would attempt to hurt the feelings of a Georgian man with the word "cracker". I would be far more likely to call attention to that growth on his neck. As you said, I hold myself to a higher standard.
Just curious, have you every actually MET any black folks - the FIRST reaction you would get from one if you said "the N Word" around a real person is "hey man, I'm not a dog, I still know what you are saying". Trust me, pretending they can't spell is a far surer way to get a punch in the face than simply saying the word. As I already wrote, if you are the only white guy working with a team of black folks, it is simply not sustainable (and you WILL get laughed at) by trying to maintain a separate coded language. In the real world, if your co-workers and team likes you, you can get away with anything, if they don't, if you are TRULY a bad boss, you will get reported to H.R. just for making them "uncomfortable" by AVOIDING certain words around them - if that's the only way they can rid their world of you. THIS is from an experience I witnessed and will not share here - the fallout was that these supposed sensitive malcontents all ended up on my team .. and these gals turned out to be the raunchiest, thick skinned soldiers I ever worked with. They played the system (to good end - I couldn't stand the prick either) and that was back in 2010. But this is still an dishonest weapon in the arsenal (since no one's feelings were ACTUALLY hurt) even if used in good cause.
Do you need some Tiger Balm for that reach? I’m talking about using it in everyday speech. If you use it regularly, you are likely poor white trash and you deserve whatever opprobrium you get.
every day speech? In any language? Negro is the word for Black in Spanish. Alabama raised Hispanics have as hard a time as saying tomatO instead of TomatER as do their white and black classmates. If a Connecticut Yankee pronounces NigGER, then it is very likely a racial slur, as he or she has to make an effort to do so. A Southerner of any race has to make an effort to NOT (which is why Southerners who try to say "NegrO" sound strange, so quickly switched to 'colored' or 'black' when Negro fell out of fashion.). You may or may not be a racist yourself, but you do come across as a bit culturally insensitive. But now you know, so ignorance is no longer an excuse. Where DO you live - or raised? That does make a difference.
I am not including Montgomery Alabama (or "Gone With the Wind" accented Atlantans) in the above, as they oddly say "the Govanah" instead of "the Governer". But that is where the supposedly more acceptable "Niggah" arose, that is simply how the locals honestly pronounce "Nigger". That has to do with immigration patterns. Native Texans of Austin Texas region speak like they are from Alabama due to a group of Tuscaloosa Alabama churches and their congregations up and moving en masse to central Texas to avoid the Civil War.
And so I don't sound totally stubborn, my concern is NOT really with how we speak today .. I can adapt like any human .. my concern is that HISTORY will be misinterpreted or worse, erased, by applying new standards retroactively .. so that now the writings of the uber-progressives Norman Lear and Mark Twain (and episodes of Sesame Street) are considered too hard to translate into a changed language .. I find it more elegant to just NOT change the language (especially when it is from something poetic to something hyphenated and bureaucratic .. the same reason I am against changing dropping miles for kilometres .. I understand the reasons, but it is not worth the loss of the ability to compose the luscious "I'm Five Hundred Miles Away from Home" - or even "I'd Walk a Mile for a Camel".
Note, I am being gracious and not addressing the "poor white trash and you deserve whatever opprobrium you get." line. Substitute "dumb black niggers" for "poor white trash" and you will know EXACTLY how that comes across to those outside whatever suburb or bubble you live in .. yet I have no compulsion to hit the Report Comment button. I am not going to erase you who are with a click of a button. Nor would I want to do so. I don't assume people are evil, I assume they are ignorant. As we all are. You don't know what you don't know.
whoah, I typed a comment and then, for the first time, noticed that my name was White Sneed. I see that my true colours are showing. So I guess that substack thing I may or may not have started is rolling. Weirdly, White Sneed arose for such an hour. It might be time for him to man up. I think I hadn't quite understood how late it was.
the Harriet E. Wilson-word. Someone had to say it.
This is like fucken Moody Bible Institute, Chicago, 1979. Mike Flood would sit up in front during chapel five days a week and brood on ways to be offended. He'd pull out about three times a week, and his half-dozen disciples would pull out with him. At Bible college very few would own up to being offended on their own account. It was always on behalf of the weaker brethren. Everyone spoke of these weaker brethren, but no one ever found them.
True fact: my son literally disowned me yesterday, 4 January '23 in this regrettably Christian calendar, changing his last name to his mother's (actually his mother's father's) because he said I made one joke too many about...well, does it matter? His mother is Dean of Woke at the University of Toronto. She used to laugh at all this p.c. stuff.
As for all this laughable stuff George Carlin warned us about, what an offensive way to treat black people, to assume that they're the weaker brethren. Jesus Christ.
Oh, you are in Canada, that explains a lot. The whiter the area, the more this phobia exists .. I guess it makes sense in two ways .. one is that it is easier to infantilize and fetish those you do not really know .. and two, it is simply exhausting to be around (and in my case, usually outnumbered by) people while not being yourself, or not speaking in their vernacular. It is MORE awkward to be the only one in a group of buddies NOT singing along to the offensive word in the song while riding in the car .. but if one does not HAVE black buddies, then I suppose one does not know that. Just don't tell those of us who do, how to behave. Jeez. (Okay, full disclosure, I don't sing along to rap songs, not even to Blondie, so actually I'm the one in the car not singing at all. Fuller disclosure, I don't sing along to any songs. Okay Fullest disclosure, I can't sing.).
I DID have a bit of fun a year back on the phone with a friend now in Atlanta when I dryly kept referring to him as "the N Word". But that joke (along with that awkward artificial and pretentious virtue-signaling term I mean REALLY? Spell it so our dog and the black folks won't know what we are saying) is SO last year. Time to move on, and again call a Spade a Spade.
George Carlin is dead.
I have to wonder whether and how much Will Saletan's sympathetic quotes here had to do with his departure/defenestration (?) from Slate this past Friday, January 28.
Wow, what a huge mark against Slate or the New York Times when white journalists can not use the n-word without consequence. The media is really going downhill when white journalists cant use the n-word without consequence. All the nuance and subtlety is lost in reporting when white journalists can’t use the n-word without consequence. We are at the precipice of losing a functional media when white journalists can not use the n-word without consequence.
This is my honest reading of how the people who feel that what happened to Pesca was this grave issue for journalism. I just wish the people who feel that way would just honestly state their position. That for them something is lost in journalism when white journalists can’t use the n-word without consequence.
"the n-word"? What n-word? I read your comment three times and have no idea what you are trying to say.